— Make the Honor Roll achievable again by HB9BGV —
It is almost impossible these days for new DXers to achieve the Honor Roll status. With FT8 it should be easier, but the problem is that more than 15 entities have not been activated for more than 15 years. The reasons are:
- Nature reserve.
- DXpedition is too expensive.
- DXpedition is too dangerous.
- Amateur radio banned by authorities (North Korea and Turkmenistan).
The RIB (Radio In Box) concept attempts to activate easily landable conservation areas, thanks to the smaller footprint.
The footprint would be even smaller if these areas were not activated at all. Whether there are 340 or only 320 entities on the ARRL list is completely irrelevant in terms of the performance of a radio station and operating skills.
20 years ago, it took about ten years to get Honor Roll status. This duration has steadily increased, and today it is practically impossible. This is very frustrating for new DX hunters. With the following idea, the Honor Roll should be achievable for newcomers, but it still is a high level goal.
The ARRL country list is based on objective geographic and political criteria, but because of the latter, the list undergoes changes and there are “current” and “deleted” entities.
Financial cost and hazardousness are not objective criteria, and it is up to DXpeditionaries to decide, not upon the ARRL. The accessibility of nature reserves is in the competence of authorities, the legality of amateur radio as well.
The proposal is therefore to introduce a third category of entities: “suspended”.
If a “current” entity has not been activated for more than 15 years (or 20 years, t.b.d.), it automatically changes to the “suspended” category and no longer counts towards the Honor Roll. However, as soon as a qualified activation (e.g. 5000 QSOs, t.b.d.) has taken place, the entity changes back to the “current” entities.
This way, no expedition is banned, but the pressure on quasi-unreachable areas is taken away. And the new DXers would still have a challenging but at least reachable goal. However, experienced hams with an already respectable country count could wait their way into the Honor Roll. I would be happy with them and not immediately call for another death of amateur radio.
And, of course, that would have to apply to the IOTA program as well.
What do you think?
Well I respectfully disagree. I never want to achieve HR#1 anytime soon unless more locations are specified. It’s great to have something to struggle/hope for. For the record that ’15 year’ statement is not quite reality. I have been licensed for 20 years last month. And the first 3-4 years I was mostly active with satellites and contesting before I caught the DX bug. Only missing 6 in that timeframe! P5, CE0X, BV9P, KH3, FT5/X, & EZ. Of those 2 were activated while I had my license but missed one and the other was t0o weak to work. Once the entity does not meet the ARRL criteria it does get dropped. That’s good enough do me. 73
I agree with Martin, What a great idea!!!!!
To follow the HB9BGV’s idea, which is just a bad joke for me, the following “steps” have to be made:
Saudi Arabia has no 30m let’s “suspend” it for DXCC 30m
Tunisia, Thailand, Iran, Azerbaijan etc have no 6m, let’s “suspend” them for DXCC 6m
Burma has no 160-17 m ,let’s “suspend” it for DXCC on those bands
Probably, QSOs made on those bands have to “deleted” to help the beloved newcomers to go up the ranks and satisfy their ego.
Maybe there are other entities eligible for “suspension” and “deletion” to make them happy.
Hej, folks, let’s not get crazy and ruin the DXCC!
It takes several decades to reach the Honor Roll and Challenge 3000, which requires devotion and this is their main value.
The question that no one addressed is “Is it a disincentive for the hobby to make something seem unattainable?” I’ve just crossed 300 with 304 confirmed and 305 work. I’ll never get a card from my 305 so the reality is I’m at 304. I made the decision not to be active for 30 year so I’m the one at fault if I never attain Honor Roll. But we should consider/explore what affect it has on people just joining the hobby.
Hi, looking to my logbook, from 01/01/2008 (15 years), I have 330 (331) DXCC confirmed (worked), based on current list.
so it means that HR could be achieved (not #1).
DXCC HR#1 is just about patience (about 25 years to achieve)
HR is “be active with a proper station”, and not only FT8!
May be some people can’t remember : ZA Albania : thanks to effort of some well-known DXers, ZA1A showed up on the air after more than 20 years of no activity (ie : political items)
Same for 3V, and P5 (very limited).
BS7 is another story
Changing the rules to have people achieving DXCC HR#1 within a couple of years : no meaning (except if ARRL want to make money!!)
So, changing the rules (ie “suspend”) does not make sense. We have to play with the political, environmental,…
If you cannot achieve the goal, do not change it, just adapt the steps
Example : make a score on the Marathon, as an example; your setup and your experience will improve, and them you can achieve HR
And DXing is : Patience
Absolutely not!
No one can claim with certainty that a particular DXCC entity will never again be available. This is nothing but impatience.
Here at the Wireless Institute of Australia we are planning to do this slightly differently in our DXCC Awards Program, without affecting HR or #1HR. We plan to introduce a 3rd HR award – “Distinction”- that is still a life-time achievement but subject to an “inactive” list. An inactive entity is defined as an entity being inactive for 15 years or more, or not active for 5 years or more with evidence that it is unlikely to be activated again. I sent full details to ARRL DXAC months ago for their input and got no reply. Would be interested in feedback on this idea before we go live. 73 Graham VK3GA Awards Manager
I totaly agree with Martin. This should be seriously reconcidered. In this messy world, by my opinion, some entities will never be in the air again (e.g. BS7, BP9, KH7K …). Some of them became a political issue, some enviromental, just think guys. So, put them on the ice (e.g. suspend them). Go Martin go …., very good thinking.
Hi Martin,
first of all….I write only about dxcc etc etc not about you and your message, so…sorry if you think otherwise, my mistake.
I started in 1997 and I reached my full SSB dxcc (virtual…without any credit ARRL etc etc) when I had my qsos with k5k, it was 2016.
20 years of intense dx activity, hunting every day for a new one, changing antennas, amplifiers etc etc
Now….it looks like with ft8 they could be at #300+ with no more than 2 years of dx(?) and should we also think about facilitating them?
Ham of early 70′ were very disappointed about internet, chat, cluster, sked etc etc but I don’t think that anyone would cut the dxcc list.
just my 2c, I’m very disappointed about the ham radio future but not a real problem, not mine…at least.
73 SK
Hi all
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
I do not know who posted my proposal on DX World, it was not me. I posted it in a closed communitiy.
I have 4 Honor Roll plaques and 2 Honor Roll Nr. 1 plaques and the IOTA plaque of excellence on my shack wall. So I am not trying to modifiy any rules in my favour, but some readers think I do. And it is annoying to read statements of old timers, who needed 30 years for the HR and expect the newcomers to do so too. They forget the fact that they worked entities during the last decades which are unreachable now.
I am thinking about HAMs who just started chasing DX. They need a reachable but still challenging goal. Better ideas are most welcome.
This world is becoming pathetic. No one accepts frustration anymore.
Difficult tasks are made easier rather than encouraging perseverance and learning. Death will be a deliverance for me.
To update the DXCC list with some corrections is something highly advisable (for example BS7) but the idea to introduce the “suspended” category is wrong since the “almost impossible” DXCCs today are about 10 entities and it would effect only the top HR. With time they will change their “impossible” status. The game has always been hard and changing the rules to make it easier it would spoil it.
Moreover I do not understand how could the Arrl DXCC desk can accept for the mixed DXCC the FT8 contacts if according the present DXCC rules any contact must “include contemporaneus direct initiation by the operator on both sides” while as far as I know many if not all the dxped use full automatic mode to log the qsos?! Am I wrong?
Martino IK3RIY Top HR
If you delete entities just because of environmental or political issues, where is the incentive to get these restrictions eased or removed? Remember the sterling work, to name one of many examples, of Jim Smith VK9NS who doggedly persuaded the governments of Bhutan and Bangladesh to allow more overseas visitors and to relax licensing restrictions. Did he want them deleted? No, he wanted them back on the air. Yes, even back them there were more difficult ones but it can be done. Nowadays, technology changes such as RIB may well help get island DXCCs back on the air occasionally. The political problems come and go anyway but there is nothing to stop anyone opening dialogue with the relevant authorities.
Don’t take the easy way out and pare down the list because it suits you but instead either meet the challenge head on if you can help, or wait and support those who can succeed on your behalf. Have faith that as the time increases further since some entities were last activated, so will the groundswell of desire and planned action to get them on the air again.
Erik EI4KF.
I agree!
if they delete from the list P5 in cw and BS7 and KH7K in digital I get the top honor roll in cw, ssb , digital and mixed
If no one lives there, is it a “country”? Scarborough reef, really? Will it ever be above water, EVER? If Amateur Radio is not allowed, should it count? So many questions…. And of course, don’t loose your mind IT’S A HOBBIE !!!!!
well, with ft8 it could be easier than before….
but not very very very easy….
so…we could simply cut the “list”……what an idea!
but….don’t forget to duble the plate cost, just to survive at least for 15 years !
proud to be ft8 hater.
As long as a territory meets the criteria it shouldn’t be deleted or ‘suspended’.
Why not give bonus DXCC credits to anyone who identifies and eliminates a remote cheater, DQRM’er or anonymous Cluster monkey.
73, Hugo-ON7GB
When I was a young DXer in the early 1970’s, among others, China, Albania, Lybia were the ones we considered “impossible”. Today there are others. There may be a few, which should be deleted, IF THEY DO NOT MEET THE CRITERIA ANY MORE. DXCC has rules. IMHO the introduction of the “suspended” status would ruin the tradition. It took us decades to reach Top of HR, so the new generations should learn some patience. 73/DX Steve HA0DU
Good idea, and I think some adjustments of DXCC list are needed. Not only to cancel some questionable reefs but also to add some workable new ones: e.g.: Gough Island is 410 Km far from Tristan da Cunha, enough to be a separate entity, according with existing criteria. My two cents.
I was inactive for 35 years, where I left off at 290 confirmed, came back on three years ago. Was quite upset to see that ARRL DELETED 11 of the prefixes that I worked very hard to get. What a bunch of rubbish!
If an operator worked a valid prefix back in the day, it should NEVER be deleted from Honor Roll qualification. That contact took just as much effort to make as any of the “newer” prefixes that have popped up due to political changes (E. and W. Germany vs unified Germany, for example). Operators who have been doing this for a longer time should be HONORED for the contacts they made in the old days, not punished by removing them from Honor Roll status. This system they have is like constantly moving the goal post further away. UNFAIR.
Fast forward to now, I’ve got 331 if one counts my “deleted” prefixes but just 320 count towards HR. I also agree that some prefixes need to be deleted if they have been inactive for 15 or more years.
Just my old timer’s 2 cents,
W1LJ
Here’s my take on being “suspended” in a DXCC entity after 15 years (or 20 years) of no activation (communication performance):
1) I commend you for your efforts to activate.
2) However, changing to DXCC due to inactivity is regarded as a serious violation that distorts the purpose of introducing the DXCC AWARD. In other words, what is the difference between “suspending” the provisions of the Constitution because you don’t like it and find it difficult? If the conquest of Mount Everest is difficult, rugged, and dangerous, would it be right to install a cable car to the top and climb it? What difference does it make?
3) Among the 340 entities, the truly difficult place is around 10 entities for various reasons. If this is “suspended”, this is necessary to achieve the DXCC HR AWARD, but I think it is a serious problem that directly interferes with the pure and true DXCC HR challenge.
4) It is a hobby and something to enjoy, so I hope that the challenge is noble and does not damage the spirit of amateur radio while adventuring like Buvet Island.
Been a Ham for 32 years. Need 4 more for top of the honour roll! FT8 has already made a joke of my determination and dedication. Without having to wait for and then chase rare ones all the challenge will be gone. There are to many appliance operators who want instant gratification! Cellphone style. I blame the ARRL and LOTW to a large degree. We must never lower our standards more than they already have. Stop complaining and make it happen! Remember, amateur radio is a marathon not a sprint!
HI dear Om Martin, I fully agree with your idea of temporarily suspending or “freezing” an entity that hasn’t been activated for at least 15 years.
In my case I have been waiting for North Korea in CW for more than 30 years for my last one,
and the application of this rule, if accepted by the ARRL would allow many Oms in my same situation to reach this coveted final goal !
Obviously, after the activation of a suspended entity, this would regularly re-enter in the complete current current list ( 340 )
The complete list of DXCC countries must not undergo any cuts or permanent changes, only temporary changes according to the conditions listed.
The reference value of the DXCC award must not be changed.
Kind regards
73, HB9ALO Mauro
Las country suspension is ridiculous even for those who benefit will always have a devalued honor roll rather the RIB gives a big hand, and evaluate other criteria for approach in difficult countries.
Then to date honor roll comes with much difficulty …but it comes impossible for TOP Honor roll…!
This my thought then do as you wish for me is fine!!!
73 de IZ1ANU
Gio!
Top Hoor Roll..!
Just fior the records, BS7H is rock, not coral. The problem there is about politic and not environment.
Politic problems can change overnight (both in a positive or negative way), the DXCC program should not change because of political issues. I agree, though, about environmental issues and indeed action have been taken (KH5K is an example).
It is too hard to run a marathon – so let’s just eliminate the forst 26 miles of running and then everyone can say that they ran, and completed, a marathon. Playing basketball is too hard. Let’s just move the rim down 4 feet and then average people can dunk. Come on – seriously? It took most people a generation or more ago to operate a lifetime to just make 300 countries. I can’t think of a more stupid idea to further dilute the meaning of being a DX’er.
Leave it just the way it is. Seems to me once an entity would move to the “suspended” status, there would be an incentive to never activate it again.
Sorry if it is tough… that’s why it is called the “Honor Roll” – those that get there should be honored.
Things change – politics, geography, science, laws. All of them affect access. You never know when one is going to pop up.
Ask baseball players how hard it is when you’re in the Little League to one day get to the MLB Hall of Fame. Many try, few are chosen…. good.
A new revision of the rules would be welcome!
The word changed
There maybe a few that are within reach, Aves Is YV0, San Felix & Ambrosio CE0, Glorioso FR/G, and maybe others in the Pacific under US control.
I have no knowledge of restrictions on these area’s but maybe they could be easy sites for the RIG in the Box operation.
I have been licensed since 1956 and have lost count of the number of times I have heard this ” argument”.
Face it, the Honor Roll is not supposed to be easy. If everyone made it, what value would it have.
I just made the RTTY HR, took me 35 years to get there and that last one (Crozet) had me dancing on the ceiling!!
Don’t mess what works
In my opionio, it seems a non-sense idea !
“Summit Everest” with endorsements:
-not reached due to weather
-not reached due to avalanche
-not reached due to lack of oxygen
-etc.
HB9BGV,
What an idea ! The world record 100m sprint is to hard to reach ? No problem, I’ve an idea, can’t we do the race on 90m ?
you can also ask for the honour roll change at 300 DXCC, it’ll be much easier 😉
73, Dimitri F4DSK (still hoping for HR #1, I’m in no hurry)
Make the honor roll easier? No…it becomes less of an achievement…or maybe you want to give a free participation trophy to all?
I think HR & DXCC Challenge are perfect tools for developing our ego, our navel-gazing, and our selfishness, which also leads to criminal behavior with DQRM on expeditions like Bouvet or Crozet recently.
And when I write this, I’m really no better than the others, as I’m also trying to reach my 3 000 slots on the challenge. But I made up my mind for a long time that HR will never be reached.
But changing rules, to satisfy the ego, well I don’t think that’s a good idea. On the other hand, working to help the activation of rare or perfectly inaccessible entities today does not mean that tomorrow we will never be able to contact them.
I have strongly advocated for some mechanism for new DXers to achieve Honor Roll ever since places like EZ, KH7K, and others have been closed by the authorities. Now I heard ZL9 and PY0S have been added to the “fuggedaboudit” list. By my counting, there area bout 15 entities that probably won’t be activated again ever or for an extremely long period. The four above, plus Desecheo, Johnston Atoll, Syria, Pratas, San Felix, Scarborough, DPRK, Aves Islands, Prince Edward/Marion and Chersterfield and possibly Kermadec. Certainly far more than 10 back from having worked them all. There are probably a few others in there as well that I’m leaving out.
Whether it’s by having a suspended entities category or by basing an individual’s Honor Roll qualifications on what entities have been silent since they were licensed (i.e. no activity from BS7 for someone licensed in 2008), there *must* be a way for new DXers to have a path to Honor Roll within a reasonable period of time. 10-15 years is quite reasonable in my opinion.
Instead of deleting/suspending entities, as this discussion comes up every few years, I would suggest updating the criteria for Honor Roll into Honor Roll Class A (within ten entities), Class B (within 20 entities), and Class C (within 30 entities). This way, the Honor Roll goal is attainable with specific achievement levels recognized, all without compromising the DXCC list.
I think it’s a meaningless proposition. Throughout the history of radio there have always been rare, impossible countries, think of Albania (ZA) before the fall of the Berlin wall or Lakshadweep (VU7) before the great tsunami of 2004. I find this wanting to make everything easy. of modern times where they want everything at once. I’ve been waiting for countries like S.Felix (CE0X) or Johnston (KH3) for over 20 years and the pleasure of Top HR#1 lies in waiting. Simplifying everything would only make DXCC less competitive and less attractive. 73s Pasquale IW0HEX
Sorry this is the same old, sad old agrument thet has been going for years. Dont be a wannabe , its hard work and not suppsoed to be “easy” We dont want DXCC dumbed down
This sounds like a reasonable suggestion. The world has certainly changed during my 50+ years as a DXer. Back in the day, operators could go almost anywhere they wanted with few restrictions other than getting a valid call sign and figuring out how to get there. Think Don Miller, Chuck Swain., or Gus Browning. Not so today. KP1 and KP5 are great examples – easy to get to but miles of red tape to go through to even attempt gaining landing permission. Then there’s BS7H – what can one say about this entity? With rising tides – it may be gone by now. And what about Aves Island? It may be gone too. Anyway – this is a timely discussion to have regardless of what’s ultimately decided. Just my opinion – your mileage may vary, de Jim WX6V -stuck at 338 on the Honor Roll list 🙂
Remove those unable to be activated like Scarborough Reef, North Korea, Turkmenistan, etc., from the DXCC list.
I am not agreeing or disagreeing but there are 2 ways to go with this:
Reduce the number in some way as proposed or
Change the DXCC eligibility to be something like on land or anchored within 100m of shore and can prove it.
It doesn’t make DXCC more fun by cutting down on the number of valid entities. Its more fun if there is more activity. Not less.
Just my opinion.
Ed N1UR
I am in complete agreement. Since I became OM (in the year 2008) I have not lost almost any entity on air and I am at 320 …. Reaching 330 is practically impossible
An Example, BS7H was in 2007; (16 YEARS TO TODAY) Before it was a piece of coral, now we don’t know what it is. Incredible that it still exists as an active country in the DXCC. I think the DXCC program needs an “Update” URGENTLY!